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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 680 for the 17th of

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october 2021

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richard saunders here coming to you from

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sydney australia

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just about one week since the lockdown

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was lifted

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and we have so-called freedom and so far

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so far it's encouraging the

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numbers of infections reported

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infections haven't gone up just yet

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we'll have to give it another week or

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two to see

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how that really goes but just yesterday

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the government announced that this state

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had reached 80 percent 80 double vaxxed

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so that's not a bad thing

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and that just brings home the reason

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that this state has now

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gone into a uh a state of some freedom

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is because people went out and got

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vaccinated

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which is quite ironic because of all the

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people screaming freedom and marching

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with signs and yelling and shouting and

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causing trouble and

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everything else

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demanding freedom

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well all they had to do was go to the

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vaccination clinic and roll up their

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sleeves and freedom would have come that

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little bit quicker for them

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but what's coming up on today's show we

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have

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part one of a two-part interview with dr

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karl kruzelniski

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and you never know what you're going to

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get with dr carl

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i have i've known carl now for many

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years

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always a pleasure to catch up with

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australia's foremost science

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communicator and today in part one

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dr carl will talk about

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his activities on tick-tock

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and

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anti-vaccination conspiracy theorists

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and how social media companies

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manipulate you to click links

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for advertising dollars

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and lots of other things as well

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including

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snipers

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following that it's the return of the

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book of tim

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with tim mendom

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since the lockdown has lifted and we

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have some freedom back tim was able to

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jump into his car drive over to the

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studios here

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and record a uh oh quite a lot of the

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book of tim for the next few weeks

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and not only do you get the book of tim

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which is about

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charles ludwig dodson otherwise known as

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lewis carroll

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but i interviewed tim as well

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then to round off the show it's a dive

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back into the trove archives and a

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classic of skepticism of course we've

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covered this before but i've found some

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new material

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there's endless material about this

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ufos and aliens including

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the recounting of a story where a couple

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of norwegian women were frightened

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by an alien

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i always find late october a bit strange

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you know

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the days are changing it's getting

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warmer i can feel summer i can feel

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spring and summer coming

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which is good and bad that's the

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humidity i don't like but i don't mind

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i don't mind

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the odd rainy day

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maybe you like rainy days too

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we had a huge storm come through

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sydney a few days ago

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it was

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one of those monumental once or twice a

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year storms

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and i ran out with my recorder and this

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is what i recorded

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[Music]

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but that's enough

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from me at the moment it's time for me

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to run downstairs have some

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some chicken

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and cauliflower soup

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with a bit of pumpkin

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while i do that i hope you enjoy

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this skeptic zone

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[Music]

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by the way in sniper work

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um the way they do it when they're

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shooting through glass

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is that they have two snipers yeah

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and

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sniper fires the bullet on the w of one

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and the second sniper fires it on the

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end of one really so the second bullet

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goes

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through empty space whereas the first

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bullet has to push through glass and

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surprisingly bullets can be diverted by

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glass

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you know they can go a little bit off

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yeah so

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that's how they do it so they

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they are that's my little story about

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snipers and the w of one okay so the

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first bullet does the shattering and any

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deflection is accounted for then the

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second bullet has a clean

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uh clean space to travel through

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yeah you usually the first bullet would

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in most cases

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just go straight through the glass and

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hit the victim yeah but occasionally the

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glass can deflect it yeah where on earth

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did you pick up that little tidbit from

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uh i was doing a story on snipers about

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15 books ago

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and i got deep into the whole

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sniper ethos and then ended up in some

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pages where some ex-snipers were talking

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about their work and how they were doing

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it and talk about great and snipers in

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history by the way for those who are not

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entirely up to date a sniper is somebody

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who has a long range rifle

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and something like the browning 50

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caliber can punch a bullet three

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kilometers and let that 50 caliber and

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at that range you can punch a hole

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through a brick wall wow three

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kilometers three kilometers but that's

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yeah but

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the wind can you know just a gentle wind

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can push it off so they have a little

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anenometer with them and by the way the

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word adenometer that's one of those

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things with the four spinning cups uh it

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gets its name from animus meaning life

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and so it spins it shows you the life of

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the wind wow another interesting fact

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about bullets which i i heard about and

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then i saw on the tv program mythbusters

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if when when somebody fires a bullet

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from a gun and somebody drops a bullet

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at at the same location straight down

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they both hit the ground at the same

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time because of the the effects of

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gravity

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yeah uh isn't physics wonderful

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folks we could go on and on like this

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all day i'm with dr karl kruselniski

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carl very good to see you again i mean

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this pandemic has played mary hell with

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us with us all of course normally

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once or twice a year it was my pleasure

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to come in and visit with you at the abc

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while you're doing your various

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worldwide radio hookups which i enjoy

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greatly sort of sitting there in the

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studio and having a good time with you

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this year must be very different for you

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personally with uh all the the changes

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that we've all had to um cope with um

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yes i was lucky in the sense that i had

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managed to before the pandemic hit um

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set up an emergency system from home so

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i have an app on my phone

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which then dials into

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the radio station

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the trouble with having the app on the

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phone

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is that if you're going to dial into the

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radio radio station you've got to do

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that via the internet if it's a phone

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it's going to do it by wi-fi and wi-fi

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unfortunately every 5-10 minutes logs

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into the base station and says hi i'm

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kyle's phone the base station says yeah

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i see your car's phone hello and during

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that time you lose signal for a bit so i

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had to buy an adapter for a hundred and

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fifty dollars that would let me put

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ethernet cable straight into the phone

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really so now i've got my yes and now

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the the abbings is only for the phone so

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now i've got myself a robust system but

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then to keep the phone charged i was

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just charging it with a little battery

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eliminator thing and then i was

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going through the abc people they said

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look you know i think i can hear a bit

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of a hum and so i end up going for a

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battery an external battery

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to keep the phone alive during a whole

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day's work and then the signal goes in

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over the internet and i had it all set

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up beforehand

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and luckily for me when the

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pandemic hit i was able to transition

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into doing that permanently with very

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little mucking around whereas other

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people have to go in into the whole

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i have to buy a mixing desk how do i set

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up the mix minus one where do i get a

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microphone from i've already gone

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through that in advance how about you

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how did things affect you doing the

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pandemic uh professionally with regard

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to recording and so forth not not a

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great deal as a matter of fact because

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i've been using the the little home

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studio here for many many many well well

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over a decade and

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you're i know you're familiar with some

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of the equipment i use including the

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zoom

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h6 handy recorder which has all sorts of

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xlr inputs and i can adjust the levels

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that's what i'm using at the moment

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and we're hooking up via the um

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the zoom video conferencing system which

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is the different from the zoom handy

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recorders ah they have both have the

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same name you said double o m but one is

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a bunch of little

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handheld digital recorders that can

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record either two four five or six

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channels or whatever yeah and the other

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one refers to the video conferencing

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application now now seeing how we're not

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talking about anything can i just get my

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little whinge off the chest yeah here it

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comes

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mate what's with these people

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who

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just

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positioned the camera so that there's a

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bright window behind them and they're in

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silhouette and when you say i can't see

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your face they say

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ah

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we've been doing video

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conferencing for the last year we're

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going to be doing for the rest of our

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lives

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don't you realize that you get a light

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and you put on a face i said well i i i

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haven't got a lot and i said you can buy

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one for money yes yes

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well look i mean i know you can see the

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listeners can't see what i'm doing but

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i'm just showing dr cole my little desk

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light here which is a ring light there

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we are ah

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ten dollars

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okay

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so for the audience i'll give you the

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three laws of lighting and here they are

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in three words

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back spot fill max back spot

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phil there's a comma in between one

283
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,240
so back you've got some sort of

284
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,399
backlight which gives you a bit of a

285
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:52,079
glow around your hair and if you get a

286
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:53,760
wind machine going at the same time you

287
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,279
can exercise your riding on a horse at

288
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,360
high speed right so that you have a bit

289
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:59,120
of a back light or some sort of you do

290
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:01,440
have some lighting behind you not zero

291
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,120
but just a little bit and then you have

292
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,440
a spotlight on your face and the ring

293
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,279
lights are really good and for 50 bucks

294
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,959
it's amazing you can buy a light which

295
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,720
is a ring light a big diffused ring

296
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,079
light and

297
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:15,200
it's variable in brightness with a knob

298
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:17,279
yes and variable in color temperature

299
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:19,279
with a knob and it's got a tripod and

300
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,120
it's 50 bucks oh my god what's not to

301
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:23,519
like and people say oh

302
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:25,519
how do i adjust the light on my face you

303
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:27,440
go and buy a light you do okay i've got

304
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,959
the widge off my chest

305
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:30,240
and then you've got this you've got the

306
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,600
back light you've got the spotlight and

307
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:33,200
you've got two little fills maybe one

308
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,480
off to the left one and off the right

309
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,079
and here's some advice

310
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,519
get the ones

311
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:39,279
they don't have to be powerful but just

312
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:40,880
get the ones that are rechargeable via

313
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:43,360
usb so each time you've used one for a

314
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:44,320
session

315
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:45,519
if it's got a battery in it you just

316
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:46,959
charge it up again the trouble with the

317
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,279
battery ones is that sometimes they can

318
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:51,360
cause a rolling image which is far too

319
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:52,959
much technical detail for the audience

320
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:54,399
to know about so we should maybe drop

321
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:56,639
this because what happens is that if

322
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,760
you've got one that's powered off the

323
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,200
mains

324
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:01,519
the light is on it's just on yeah 24

325
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:04,720
hours a day but with the battery-powered

326
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,200
ones often to save power they'll switch

327
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:09,839
them on and off so quickly that you

328
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,600
can't see them switching on and off like

329
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:13,360
a movie right and so they'll switch them

330
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:16,320
on and off 50 times a second yeah and so

331
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:17,839
in each second they're actually only

332
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,480
burning electricity for half a second

333
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,079
sure there's a bit of an overhead in the

334
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,560
electronics to you know to make that

335
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,120
happen but they're basically using half

336
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,200
the power and if that frequency happens

337
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,680
to match up with the scanning frequency

338
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,600
of your camera you can then get rolling

339
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:34,800
bands it took me a while to work that

340
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,519
one out we and we want to avoid that but

341
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:39,279
but i'll just leave this topic by saying

342
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,279
folks i picked up a

343
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:43,760
i i i've used ring lights for for some

344
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:46,079
years now for various professional

345
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,279
video shoots and things like that but

346
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:49,120
i've got a desk one now

347
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,160
which has two uh stalks flexible stalks

348
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,399
one has the the light which is

349
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:56,480
adjustable and the other stalk has a

350
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:59,680
little mounting for my um my phone so i

351
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,360
can easily make and this is a great

352
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,920
segue folks here it comes i can easily

353
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:05,839
make tick-tock videos which i'm just

354
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,399
getting into partly inspired dr karl by

355
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,320
your tick-tock videos

356
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:12,240
how long have you been doing that

357
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:14,000
they're quite extraordinary some of your

358
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,680
tik-tok videos you're singing you're

359
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:17,519
dancing and people are

360
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:19,040
trying to mimic what you're doing all

361
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,519
around the world ah well

362
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,279
you're too kind but

363
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:25,120
let me take you through it firstly

364
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:27,200
remember the old pole is saying

365
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:30,399
if you've got a dog don't bark

366
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,440
so in other words if it comes to you

367
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,240
adjusting the timing of the fuel

368
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:38,480
injectors on your car's engine are you

369
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,519
an expert in it no get somebody who is

370
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,000
so i knew my limitations with tick-tock

371
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:46,160
i looked at him and i thought i don't

372
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,279
understand what's going on i don't and

373
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,600
so i went to a very skilled person the

374
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,959
six-year-old daughter of a neighbour of

375
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:54,880
mine and said what's the deal with

376
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:57,600
tick-tock okay she was nine and she said

377
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,639
um do experiments and dance a lot yeah

378
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,560
and i took that on board wow and what

379
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:04,160
that meant was i knew i was out of my

380
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,760
depth so then i hired for money because

381
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,680
and by the way it says this over and

382
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,360
over and over again in the christian

383
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:13,199
bible and i'm pretty sure it says it in

384
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,480
most other religious texts that the

385
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,800
laborer is worthy

386
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:20,240
of their hire

387
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:21,440
if you're going to get somebody to do

388
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,519
something for you for you none of this

389
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,600
hey you can be an intern for me and

390
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,199
you'll get really good experience give

391
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:29,199
him money right

392
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:31,199
being getting experience doesn't pay for

393
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,800
the cup of coffee or the bus fare or the

394
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:34,800
trade fair or the cup right you got to

395
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,040
pay money so i paid the money so the

396
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:39,199
average age is 18. so that's my two

397
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,720
nieces and my daughter and they then

398
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,399
took over the production i i am

399
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,480
basically the warm prop

400
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,839
i i taught them a bit about the

401
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,839
importance of the lighting and the

402
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,399
microphone but they had the uh

403
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:56,880
presentation they so

404
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,959
i'm going to say two words to you and

405
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,560
tell me if you understand not their

406
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,800
literal meaning but their current

407
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:05,120
social meaning and here here are the two

408
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,480
words rare aesthetic um

409
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:10,720
no idea is your answer no no idea what

410
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:14,000
in current terms i've um you tell me

411
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:15,519
that's good that's good because that's

412
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,560
what i like about scientists there's

413
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,160
none of this oh i might have heard of it

414
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,920
it's got no idea tell me

415
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:22,000
so basically when you look at the tick

416
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,760
tocks you just look at them

417
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,279
superficially

418
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,240
and you think that people are just

419
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:29,519
miming

420
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:31,440
but no they're trying to pick up the

421
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,880
entire vibe of that time

422
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,800
reinterpreted through them into a modern

423
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:39,199
era and that is the the significance of

424
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:41,759
the two words rare aesthetic right and i

425
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,199
had no idea that

426
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,440
so um and that's the significance of the

427
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,440
words rare aesthetic and so on one

428
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,959
occasion they got me to do a video which

429
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:50,399
is entitled rear aesthetic which is on

430
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:53,360
my tic-tock feet and basically i stand

431
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:54,800
in front of a mirror

432
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,279
um i put a hat on i vanish behind the

433
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,120
hat there's a close-up of my shoes with

434
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,440
the words carl on it and then i'm out

435
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:04,800
and that got 600 000 views what now the

436
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,320
content

437
00:16:11,389 --> 00:16:09,600
was a as as a science producer the

438
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:11,399
content was zero yeah but the

439
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:14,320
presentation wow was it was right so

440
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,600
what you've got to do is get those

441
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,440
people that is to say the people who are

442
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:20,160
under the age of 25 to be involved and

443
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,519
this is very important because um the

444
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,279
uh two-thirds of the viewers of

445
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:27,040
tick-tock are female and at one stage i

446
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:29,199
haven't got the latest figures um i

447
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:31,440
think more than half are under the age

448
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:34,480
of 16. wow now here's here's two scary

449
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,759
things for you in one small study

450
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,279
of people

451
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:41,040
aged 9

452
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,000
to

453
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,639
17

454
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:46,160
90

455
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,680
were told lies about the covered disease

456
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:54,480
in their first 35 minutes on tick-tock

457
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,199
90 percent were told lies

458
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,079
on tick-tock and then two-thirds were

459
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:03,120
told lies um about the vaccine

460
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:04,480
and then

461
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:08,240
other studies looking at say a thousand

462
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:09,679
people uh

463
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:12,079
females in australia found pretty

464
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:15,280
similar results but because i was spread

465
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,480
across a whole bunch of different social

466
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:18,720
media platforms they were getting told

467
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,760
lies not just about covert uh

468
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,480
but also about global warming right

469
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:26,319
right black lives matter the whole thing

470
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,439
yeah and so

471
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:29,679
then that then raises in one's head in

472
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,080
my head it raised the simple old

473
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:34,400
sentence from the past which is that for

474
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,280
evil to triumph all that is needed is

475
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:39,200
that good people do nothing yes yes

476
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,880
that's that that's right that's that's

477
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,720
an old uh expression and we certainly

478
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:43,760
heard it

479
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,440
so that's why i had to get into talk you

480
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:47,760
see i had to get into tick tock to give

481
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,480
them an alternative and different voice

482
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:52,559
which by the way happened to be correct

483
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,840
because if you go into tick tock the

484
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,440
first couple of times and you're 10

485
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:57,840
years old if you're 10 years old you

486
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:00,640
haven't had what i've had which is the

487
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:04,400
benefits of 12 years of medical training

488
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,440
yeah so

489
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:07,280
six years going through the form of

490
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:09,039
university education and then six years

491
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:10,960
in the hospital system they've got

492
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:13,039
virtually no health education and if

493
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,200
people say hey the vaccine attacks um

494
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,600
your proteins that you need to

495
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:21,360
be able to have a pregnancy and

496
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,480
therefore the vaccine makes you

497
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,440
infertile and nicki minaj was right well

498
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:28,080
so that's why i went on to it yeah well

499
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,679
i mean you make a very good point of

500
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,679
course but it's not just the the younger

501
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:34,240
the younger younger generation it's it's

502
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:36,000
can uh influence these sort of things

503
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:37,600
can influence many generations which

504
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:39,440
brings us to another point in general

505
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:42,240
which is the covert misinformation which

506
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,520
has been extraordinary now you know very

507
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,440
well the uh the skeptical movement has

508
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,919
been fighting the back uh vax

509
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,000
anti-vaccination misinformation for

510
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,000
years and years and years and years but

511
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:55,679
this situation over the last couple of

512
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:58,160
years has really brought these people to

513
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,880
the fore and the way they can for lack

514
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,400
of a better word or maybe it's a good

515
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,559
analogy infect

516
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,919
a lot of the population with

517
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:07,600
misinformation and i know that you've

518
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,520
been doing a lot of that sort of uh

519
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:11,840
fighting yourself against misinformation

520
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:15,280
on tick tock yeah um so i've done it on

521
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:20,160
abc radio in my podcasts on twitter and

522
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,840
on tiktok

523
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:23,120
and

524
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,520
email me or contact me back saying i had

525
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:29,280
a discussion with this after listening

526
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:30,880
to your story with my mother or my

527
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:33,760
grandmother or my son or grandson and we

528
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,799
now decide to get both vaccinated yeah

529
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,840
and

530
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:39,200
yes so one

531
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:42,080
simple one is we don't know

532
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:44,960
the long-term side effects of the

533
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,960
vaccines and that's true because we

534
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:48,960
haven't had 15 years since the vaccines

535
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,000
but overwhelmingly from 1200 years of

536
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,720
giving vaccinations so it was a chinese

537
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,799
who used to do it way back then

538
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:59,360
around 800 a.d from 1200 years of

539
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:01,280
vaccinations we know that

540
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,440
the side effects are gone and dusted by

541
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,880
four weeks

542
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:09,760
maybe six weeks very rarely you might

543
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:12,720
find a side effect still persisting by

544
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,919
uh two months but that's it man

545
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:17,360
there are no long-term side effects you

546
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,919
get the side effects early on and then

547
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:21,360
you're stuck with them but it's not as

548
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,080
though they appear for the first time

549
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,840
you know years down the line

550
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:27,200
and

551
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:29,120
people keep on bringing that up as an

552
00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:31,690
issue and then that ties into the whole

553
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,840
[Music]

554
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:34,720
sovereignty issue where i'm a sovereign

555
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,919
citizen don't have to do anything

556
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:37,360
anybody else does

557
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:40,400
um and then tie that in with a few lies

558
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:43,280
and a bit of q anon and there you are

559
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:44,960
they throw in the word sheeple and you

560
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:46,960
got yourself a good conspiracy theory oh

561
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,600
it's it's it's it's amazing and i think

562
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:51,679
it's going to result in many academic

563
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,919
papers about this particular period in

564
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:56,240
history and the influence of these

565
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,000
people and you're right they throw

566
00:21:02,070 --> 00:20:59,840
around the word sheeple where all the

567
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,080
sheeple and it's and i've noticed this

568
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,159
in the skeptical world for a long time

569
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,039
is that people accuse you and me

570
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,880
of the very things they're guilty of so

571
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,320
they'll label us as sheeple where

572
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:13,440
they're blindly following some tip uh

573
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:16,559
tiktok meme or or what have you folks i

574
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,400
will link in the show notes this week

575
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,720
folks i will link to dr cole's tik tok

576
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,400
account please have a look at it it's

577
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:24,159
great it's fun one of your ones i

578
00:21:28,390 --> 00:21:26,320
noticed the other day had over a million

579
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:28,400
hits carl you're doing quite well yeah

580
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,000
there was one that got up to about five

581
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,159
million that was uh that if you're

582
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:34,960
drinking mixer drinks uh like a ramen

583
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:37,600
cola the diet drink gets you drunker

584
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,039
than the regular drink um and that lead

585
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:43,280
into all sorts of little wormholes

586
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,720
it's amazing what gets attention um

587
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:48,559
i've noticed on my

588
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:51,440
twitter feed that

589
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,360
when i talk about something that upsets

590
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:55,120
people that they'll be

591
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:56,840
rolling waves

592
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,159
of uh twitter links attacking me um

593
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:02,559
sometimes hundreds in an hour

594
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:04,400
following the rising sunset across the

595
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,840
usa really yeah yeah and so little robot

596
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,679
farms of people have been alerted to

597
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,080
wake up and go and start attacking me

598
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,520
wow i think a large part of the

599
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:14,960
disinformation

600
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,080
comes from the social media

601
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:20,880
and it wasn't done deliberately but it

602
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:23,440
just sort of grew by itself and took off

603
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:26,799
so i'd recommend uh this big fat book to

604
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:30,799
read the age of surveillance capitalism

605
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,200
by shashana

606
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,440
zuboff that's a big fat book it'll take

607
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:37,120
you a long time to read

608
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:38,240
um

609
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,720
and she points out how they're making

610
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:43,440
lots of money out of us they the social

611
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:47,360
media companies the system by james ball

612
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:49,600
goes into more detail

613
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,799
and um he for example points out that

614
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,400
they make a huge

615
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:55,840
amount of money

616
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,640
out of advertising so in the last

617
00:23:02,789 --> 00:22:59,760
quarter

618
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:02,799
of 2008 in facebook it says in this book

619
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:05,760
uh the system by james ball on page 117

620
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,039
it says facebook had revenues of 16.9

621
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:11,039
billion that's not bad for a quarter of

622
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:12,400
a year

623
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,320
16.6 came from advertising what yep and

624
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,400
google was sort of double that and then

625
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:20,240
finally there's this book here stolen

626
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:21,280
focus

627
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:25,120
by johann johann harry and i'll put it

628
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,720
all together okay now the first thing

629
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:31,440
we've written we end up at a situation

630
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:34,400
where it makes sense

631
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,520
to tell

632
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:36,880
lies

633
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:37,919
on

634
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:38,640
the

635
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:44,320
google facebook etc will make money out

636
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,520
of it and it goes like this each time

637
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:48,960
you

638
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:49,760
uh

639
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:52,400
click on a link to

640
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:53,919
you're buying sheets for example and you

641
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:55,679
see one that looks interesting each time

642
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,520
you click on the link in that hundredth

643
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,760
of a second or so before that page

644
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,159
starts loading all of your details and

645
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:05,039
this happens to every human on earth who

646
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,159
goes onto the web to do stuff

647
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:10,080
all of your details you know typically

648
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:13,279
four or five gigabytes is known to about

649
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:16,559
100 or so advertisers and they then bid

650
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,279
for the right to put the ads on the next

651
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,120
home page you go to

652
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,600
and for you and me they'll pay between

653
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,200
one and five cents but if you're

654
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:27,600
somebody important like a financial

655
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,400
executive they'll pay up to 20 cents and

656
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,799
in most cases you'll just go looking for

657
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:35,039
the sheets again on your second page and

658
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,640
your third page and you won't notice the

659
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:38,240
advertisements

660
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:44,159
put up their little sidebars

661
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,080
such as the earth is really flat

662
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:50,159
or the united states

663
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:53,919
military have photos or movies of ufos

664
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:57,440
or the covered vaccine has 5g chips in

665
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:00,240
it and if you click on one of those what

666
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,240
happens is that each time you click

667
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:04,799
you're going to give one to five cents

668
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,000
so the advertisers pay that to google or

669
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:10,559
facebook right and here's an interesting

670
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,039
thing google and facebook

671
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,360
have no real responsibility to us

672
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:18,080
because we're not their customer and

673
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:20,240
they have no real responsibility to the

674
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:23,679
people selling the sheets

675
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,080
all they want is to keep the advertiser

676
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:28,000
company happy so they pay the one to

677
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:29,200
five cents

678
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,120
so you can end up going down the rabbit

679
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:33,600
hole and i would recommend listening to

680
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:36,159
the podcast down the rabbit hole on the

681
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,480
new york times it's a five-part podcast

682
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,480
and describe somebody who actually found

683
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,480
themselves believing that the earth was

684
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:44,880
flat because wherever they clicked yeah

685
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:46,480
and by the way at the same time they

686
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:49,039
would pay one to five one to five cents

687
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,559
would get paid the advertiser and they

688
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:53,120
were doing this maybe

689
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:55,520
60 times an hour once every minute and

690
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,120
and they would

691
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,279
keep on doing this they no matter where

692
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,200
they looked every bit of information

693
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:03,120
said the earth was flat yeah wherever

694
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:04,960
they looked everywhere on the internet

695
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,640
they were told this by the way i first

696
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,559
discovered this beginning of the

697
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,240
personalization

698
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,400
back in the late 90s when i was doing

699
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,640
tours across texas

700
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,120
and i was talking

701
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,799
with my colleague that i was going to

702
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,559
meet in texas and i was saying no no

703
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,960
look look just search for it to search

704
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:24,480
for this thing and you'll see it and he

705
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:25,919
typed it in he said no i don't see it so

706
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,880
i said look okay we're on contact in

707
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:31,039
internet contact i'll

708
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:32,559
put in the search

709
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,880
enquiry to my search engine and then i'm

710
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:36,960
going to cut and paste exactly what i

711
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,840
typed and emailed it to you and you put

712
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,520
into your search engine

713
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:43,760
and we got completely different results

714
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:44,880
for the same

715
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,480
and so that was the moment when i

716
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,559
realized that the search engine

717
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:50,320
companies

718
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:51,600
showing you

719
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,480
what

720
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,200
you are interested in whether if the

721
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,000
earth is flat or not yeah now

722
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:00,080
there's another factor involved here

723
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,679
which is that um

724
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:06,240
scary and dangerous gets you more

725
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:08,559
interested than lovey-dovey so

726
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:12,480
overwhelmingly if you show pictures of

727
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,600
cute things or angry things angry people

728
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:17,919
to people of all ages they will tend to

729
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:20,159
click more on the angry person just to

730
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:21,360
find out what's going on because that

731
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,840
could be a threat as another and you've

732
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,200
got to pay attention to that threat

733
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,880
because it could kill you or if you're

734
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:28,320
going for a walk through a national park

735
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,520
and you're looking at the beautiful

736
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:31,360
flannel flowers and then a little bit

737
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,799
later you hear this noise and a bunch of

738
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:34,720
galas go over you look at them but

739
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:36,000
before you get to look at the flannel

740
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:37,440
flowers suddenly you see a red belly

741
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:39,440
black snake and that takes all of your

742
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,760
attention flannel flowers forget them

743
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:43,200
the glass go over forget them you're

744
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,960
just concentrating thinking this thing

745
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,640
can kill me and you're in a state of

746
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:48,960
hyper-vigilance and this happens when

747
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,279
you're being shown scary stuff like the

748
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:54,080
world is flat and the world is being run

749
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:57,760
by the dark forces the deep

750
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,720
web that is going to that actually

751
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:03,600
people who are satanic pedophilic

752
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,200
shape-changing reptiles from the planet

753
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:07,760
zog yeah and so then you go into a state

754
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:09,120
of hyper-vigilance where all your

755
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,799
attention is on that

756
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:12,480
and blow me down

757
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:14,960
five hours later you come out yes and

758
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:16,720
the sun has gone down and five hours

759
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:19,200
have just gone and in that five hours

760
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:21,679
roughly once a minute you have generated

761
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:25,120
one to five cents for the social media

762
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,320
companies their only interest

763
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:30,320
is getting that one to five cents now

764
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,240
they didn't mean to start off by saying

765
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,840
look if we tell lots of lies about

766
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:35,520
things we'll get wealthy they had no

767
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,039
idea that that's the way that the human

768
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:39,360
nature and the changing environment

769
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,320
would happen and in the book um

770
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:45,120
the stolen focus book he suggests a

771
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,640
change in the model that we don't let

772
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:48,240
the

773
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,120
want for example in our society if you

774
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:55,120
want to go out into the main street of

775
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:57,600
your local suburb and start selling

776
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,640
automatic rifles and cyanide uh to

777
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,720
anybody who wants to kill somebody else

778
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:04,640
the society will stop you from doing

779
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,200
that in australia um and if you drive in

780
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,600
a car you have to have a license to show

781
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:11,600
that you can do it you say there are

782
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,480
limitations on our behavior and i'm not

783
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,919
allowed to go out and kill you that's a

784
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,520
limitation on my behavior so there

785
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:19,919
should be now that we know

786
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,039
that social media has been doing this

787
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:25,360
we now need to regulate social media and

788
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:28,159
maybe the trick would be to force them

789
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,840
by government regulation and this is

790
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,520
what is suggested in the book style of

791
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:33,440
focus that

792
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:36,640
their customers are you and me

793
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:38,159
that we each have to pay a small

794
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,399
subscription fee the advertisers are not

795
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:42,559
in the loop and that way we change the

796
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,440
system and ultimately we reduce the

797
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,360
destruction of our society because if

798
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:49,520
you read the um

799
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,320
the not the cryptography

800
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:54,720
money ones but rather the

801
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,760
military force intelligence discussions

802
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,159
of what's happening with our society and

803
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:03,120
the social media the majority

804
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,000
of

805
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:06,399
certain social media

806
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:09,520
platforms are funded from what they call

807
00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:12,159
hostile actors which is their jargon for

808
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,080
foreign countries that are not australia

809
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:16,880
america etc etc etc well dr carl i could

810
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,799
talk about this with you for weeks and

811
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:20,399
weeks and weeks why don't we do that why

812
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,440
don't we end this for this week now and

813
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:25,520
hopefully you can join us next week and

814
00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:27,279
we can talk about some more you got a

815
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:28,590
date

816
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,480
[Music]

817
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:40,640
new zealand and australian skeptics

818
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:45,600
present skepticon 2021 20th to the 21st

819
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,840
of november every year skeptics in

820
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:49,440
australia and new zealand hold their

821
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,840
separate annual conferences this year it

822
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:53,279
will be different

823
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:55,600
the two groups are joining hands across

824
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,559
the water by holding a joint online

825
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:01,360
event all speakers will be live streamed

826
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:03,760
from around the world australia new

827
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:07,840
zealand the uk russia and more a truly

828
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,480
international event to enjoy from the

829
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:12,399
comfort of your own home

830
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,159
speakers include

831
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:17,200
new zealander of the year dr susie wiles

832
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:20,799
from the uk professor richard wiseman

833
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,120
associate professor paul willis

834
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:26,399
dr ken harvey annie mccoven

835
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,080
linna yazin dr helen patertis harris

836
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,760
dr sat douchey and many more

837
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,080
tickets are on sale now and are only 40

838
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:37,840
australian dollars

839
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:40,960
that's less than 30 u.s for both days

840
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:42,799
for more information and to book your

841
00:32:02,320 --> 00:31:58,789
[Music]

842
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,330
and now a reading from the book of tim

843
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:05,039
[Music]

844
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:06,170
with tim mendom

845
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,509
hi my name is tim mandum and i'm the

846
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:17,919
editor of the skeptic magazine and

847
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:20,320
executive officer of australian skeptics

848
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,120
inc

849
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,120
and today i'll be reading you an article

850
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:26,159
from the skeptic way back from september

851
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:27,679
2012

852
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,799
which is volume 32 number three

853
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,480
this is our section that we call what

854
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,279
goes around based on the principle that

855
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,360
you start with a bit of information work

856
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,039
your way through a lot of connections

857
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,360
and come back to where you started from

858
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:43,360
and this one is about seekers after

859
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,399
fantasy truth and recreation

860
00:32:50,669 --> 00:32:48,799
and we start with charles lutwidge

861
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:50,679
dodgson

862
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:54,880
1832-1898 better known as lewis carroll

863
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:57,519
he was an author mathematician logician

864
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:59,919
anglican deacon and photographer his

865
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,840
most famous writings of course are the

866
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,919
fantasy works alice's adventures in

867
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,480
wonderland through the looking gas the

868
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,440
hunting of the snark and jabberwocky

869
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,600
among various inventions he came up with

870
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,440
a rule for finding the day of the week

871
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,880
for any date

872
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:16,880
fairer elimination rules for tennis

873
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,440
tournaments and at least two ciphers for

874
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:21,440
cryptography he was also a founding

875
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,480
member of the uk society for psychical

876
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:26,240
research

877
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:31,279
founded in 1882 in london and was the

878
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:33,200
first organization of its kind in the

879
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,080
world

880
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:36,240
its stated purpose is to understand

881
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:38,640
quote events and abilities commonly

882
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,360
described as psychic or paranormal by

883
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,279
promoting and supporting important

884
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:45,919
research in this area

885
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:48,480
and to examine allegedly paranormal

886
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,440
phenomena in a scientific and unbiased

887
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,279
way close quote

888
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:55,519
initial committees covered thought

889
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:58,880
transference mesmerism mediumship

890
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:02,320
reichenbach phenomena or odick force

891
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,960
apparitions and haunted houses

892
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,880
physical phenomena associated with

893
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,240
seances

894
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:10,079
and a literary committee which studied

895
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:13,040
the history of these phenomena

896
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:15,919
now critical spr investigations into

897
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,560
purported mediums and the exposure of

898
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:20,560
fake mediums led to a number of

899
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:22,960
resignations in the 1880s by

900
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:24,560
spiritualist members

901
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:26,639
but the society continued to investigate

902
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:29,599
mediums studying leonora piper and

903
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,040
usapia paladino among others

904
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,639
in 1885

905
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,040
richard hodgson's report on theosophical

906
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:39,280
phenomena expressed the opinion that the

907
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,000
founder of the theosophical society

908
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:44,639
helena petrova blavatsky

909
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:46,800
was quote neither the mouthpiece of

910
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,480
hidden sears noraemir vulgar adventurous

911
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:52,560
we think she has achieved title to

912
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:54,879
permanent remembrance as one of the most

913
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:57,839
accomplished ingenious and interesting

914
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,240
imposters in history

915
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:02,640
now helena blavatsky actually born

916
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,160
helena gann 1831-1891

917
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,000
was co-founder of a research and

918
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,000
publishing institute called the

919
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,000
theosophical society which actually

920
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:13,599
still exists

921
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:15,760
she saw herself as a missionary of

922
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:17,200
ancient knowledge

923
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:18,960
her interests included a range of

924
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:21,280
spiritualist aspects including an

925
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:24,079
absolute truth reincarnation karma

926
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,920
atlantis and lemuria

927
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:27,920
she once wrote that quote mankind did

928
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:30,560
not issue from one solitary couple

929
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,119
nor was there ever a first man whether

930
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,119
adam or yim

931
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:37,760
once that both creation x nicolo

932
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,720
an absurdity and a superhuman creator or

933
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:42,640
creators a fact

934
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:45,760
are made away with by science polygenism

935
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,240
which is multiple sources for humanity

936
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,000
presents no more difficulties or

937
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:52,560
inconveniences rather fewer from a

938
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:55,599
scientific point of view than monogenism

939
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:58,560
does and cosmologyism is starting from

940
00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:59,920
one

941
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,680
entity

942
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,079
as in adam or eve

943
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,560
creation x nicolo is the central tenet

944
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,960
of creationism or intelligent design

945
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:10,880
using the bible as a prime source of

946
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,280
scientific truth organizations that have

947
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,520
expressed formal criticism if not

948
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,760
absolute dismissal of creationism

949
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,440
include the u.s national academy of

950
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,680
sciences the american association for

951
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:23,520
the advancement of science the uk royal

952
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:24,960
society the u.s national science

953
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:26,720
teachers association the national center

954
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,400
for science education

955
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:30,000
the american association of physics

956
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:31,520
teachers the american astronomical

957
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,720
society the american geophysical union

958
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:36,240
the american chemical society the

959
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,839
american physical society and

960
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,280
cyclops cycop

961
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,119
the committee for the scientific

962
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,480
investigation of claims of the

963
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:47,040
paranormal now shortened to committee

964
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,520
for scientific inquiry was officially

965
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:51,599
launched by philosophy professor paul

966
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,320
kurtz at a specially convened conference

967
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:57,040
of the american humanist association in

968
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:59,040
nineteen seventy six

969
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:01,119
among its founding members were kurtz

970
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,880
james randy ray hyman marcelo tritzy and

971
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,480
martin gardner

972
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:08,800
garden was especially known as a writer

973
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,440
on recreational mathematics though he

974
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:13,200
had no qualifications in mathematics

975
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,560
beyond high school

976
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:17,280
he is also known as an annotator of

977
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:19,839
several books that he found sort of

978
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:21,760
frightening when he was young

979
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:24,160
those books are lewis carroll's alice's

980
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:26,079
adventures in wonderland through the

981
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:27,839
looking glass and the hunting of the

982
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:30,480
snark which brings us back to charles

983
00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:32,880
lutwich dodson one of the founders of

984
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,550
the society for psychical research

985
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:38,240
[Music]

986
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:39,599
and that's what goes around from the

987
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,359
skeptic magazine september 2012 volume

988
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,000
32 number three and you can download

989
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,760
that issue of the magazine and in fact

990
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:50,240
most issues of the magazine for free

991
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:53,700
from our website skeptics.com.edu

992
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:00,720
[Music]

993
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,349
i'm in the portable skeptic's own studio

994
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:17,040
it's the two of us are actually it's a

995
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,720
bit cozy it is

996
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:21,200
and it's working well tim you've just

997
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,160
did uh what six weeks seven seven eight

998
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,000
ten twelve a year's worth of the book of

999
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:28,240
tim absolutely yes and it's well worth

1000
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:29,920
it too well worth it a bit tired but

1001
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:31,680
it's well worth it coming up you can

1002
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:33,200
listen you can expect to listen to

1003
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:34,960
stories about the loch ness monster and

1004
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,520
star trek star trek always good not lock

1005
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,359
this monster and star trek instead of

1006
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:41,119
their two separate stories yeah yeah

1007
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,560
yeah although

1008
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:44,640
although how they covered star trek they

1009
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,760
covered whales in star trek movies i i

1010
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:49,280
you know what i don't think they covered

1011
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,720
the loch ness monster but scotty was

1012
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,880
scottish wasn't he was scottish yes

1013
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:54,720
mainly because and all engineers are

1014
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,240
scottish

1015
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:58,640
as we know that uh and and he couldn't

1016
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:01,440
get it any faster no because

1017
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:03,839
you kind of changed a lot of things

1018
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:06,000
a good man with scotty it was good

1019
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,320
unknown unlike most psychics he changed

1020
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:10,320
the words i didn't know until recently

1021
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:13,359
that the actor um james dewan wasn't

1022
00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:14,400
scottish

1023
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:16,880
no he's canadian and he lost a finger in

1024
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:19,920
world war ii where did he lose it

1025
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,800
on the end of his hand did he find it

1026
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,160
and um

1027
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,800
so in a very few clips in star trek the

1028
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,800
original you can see that uh he's

1029
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,320
missing it yeah saying they're the same

1030
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,160
as tony iami the league guitarist of

1031
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,480
black sabbath oh he lost a finger in his

1032
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:36,400
um

1033
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,599
in a workplace

1034
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:39,280
there you go hard for a guitarist to

1035
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:40,839
lose

1036
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:42,160
how's uh

1037
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,680
how are things going at this skeptic

1038
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,599
magazine during the lockdown oh

1039
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:47,599
brilliant absolutely brilliant we're

1040
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:49,280
enjoying it so much that i spend all my

1041
00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:50,640
time reading back issues with the

1042
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:53,200
magazine you do which listeners can do

1043
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,800
of course they can do it all the time

1044
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,720
they can download the magazine yeah for

1045
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:58,000
free yeah

1046
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,599
most of except for the last four issues

1047
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,280
which are reserved for subscribers so

1048
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,640
you've got that that's the end here's

1049
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,760
him you've got to subscribe to get the

1050
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:05,599
last most recent four issues but i think

1051
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:07,040
we're the only skeptic group in the

1052
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:08,960
world that puts all their magazine

1053
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:11,119
online for free uh

1054
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:12,400
i you know what i'd have to look at it

1055
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:13,680
but you're probably right i'm always

1056
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,480
right

1057
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,400
yeah yeah there's thousands of articles

1058
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:18,720
and reports and things to read online

1059
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,880
and but this year's the last two years

1060
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,119
have been a bit strange because normally

1061
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,040
i'm out and about looking at things to

1062
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:27,280
do investigations we might both be doing

1063
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:29,520
something like that going to conventions

1064
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:31,280
even psychic conventions which you and i

1065
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,680
have been to before absolutely yes and i

1066
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:35,359
i can hope that next year is going to be

1067
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,720
a different story so that means the last

1068
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:38,240
two years have had less of your articles

1069
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:39,599
in the magazine which is probably not a

1070
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:41,970
bad thing not a bad thing but next issue

1071
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,400
[Laughter]

1072
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,839
next dish oh there's a bird it doesn't

1073
00:40:50,829 --> 00:40:47,760
matter the birds can sing out the window

1074
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:50,839
next issue will be that's your fan club

1075
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:52,160
is birds

1076
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:58,230
um next issue we will be publishing the

1077
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,760
findings of the great australian psychic

1078
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:01,599
prediction project this this is actually

1079
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:02,720
pretty something pretty exciting

1080
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,960
actually this is a major project looking

1081
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,280
at twenty years of psychics predictions

1082
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:09,200
so about three thousand eight almost

1083
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,960
four thousand almost four thousand years

1084
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,560
it's been a major work by richard who's

1085
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,160
devoted all of his childhood to doing

1086
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,800
this every day and and it is something

1087
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:18,880
to really look forward to and you might

1088
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:21,040
be surprised by the results

1089
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:22,400
but you'll have to read you'll have to

1090
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:23,760
read them listeners you'll have to wait

1091
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:25,839
till they are published and you can find

1092
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,880
out how your favorite psychic scored

1093
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:30,000
and there's quite a few of them there's

1094
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,240
quite a few there's 207

1095
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,640
roughly roughly that's the rough at the

1096
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:36,560
rough number two

1097
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,800
207 rough psyches i think that's roughly

1098
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,880
210 but we'll sort of some

1099
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,079
more or less

1100
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:44,400
and it's interesting to see um

1101
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:46,400
the rule of thumb is the more

1102
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:48,560
information give it away we could gather

1103
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:49,760
oh yes you'll have to read it for

1104
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,440
yourself that's right yes but there are

1105
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:53,520
some some very interesting results some

1106
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,200
very exciting results but it's a whopper

1107
00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:59,440
it's a whopper of a research project

1108
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,119
it's huge it's really impressive it

1109
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:03,200
takes up richie all the magazine yeah

1110
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,480
but it's been well worth reading

1111
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,400
actually and i'm i'm what i've read of

1112
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,480
it so far is i'm very impressed yeah

1113
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:10,000
well i can't wait to bet on the next

1114
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:11,520
melbourne cup based on what i've been

1115
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,760
reading and if he's as accurate as

1116
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,560
psychics he'll be rich

1117
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:18,400
and uh we're looking forward to the

1118
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:20,160
online convention of course skepticon

1119
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:22,480
2021 very australian and new zealand

1120
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,319
joint uh convention and that'll be an

1121
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,160
online convention so anybody in the

1122
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,560
world can attend for a very very low

1123
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,240
price and actually richard will be

1124
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,319
presenting a summarized first

1125
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,000
an overview of the

1126
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:36,319
or an underview another view the the

1127
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,680
tickets are very cheap i mean if you're

1128
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:39,359
in australia they're only forty dollars

1129
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:41,599
and new zealand it's about 41 or

1130
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:42,560
something like that because it's

1131
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,000
equivalent thereof yeah the equivalent

1132
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:46,400
thereof but for us listeners if you want

1133
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,000
to attend the australian skeptics and

1134
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,520
new zealand skips convention it's less

1135
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:51,359
than thirty dollars and for and for

1136
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,960
english it's probably just over um

1137
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,400
twenty pounds

1138
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,720
or three p or three people or if your

1139
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,760
euro euro it's probably about 30 euros

1140
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:01,520
is that something like that look at the

1141
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:03,200
other checks not much i have to call my

1142
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:04,800
accountant yes

1143
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:07,680
it's not much if and if you're in india

1144
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:09,200
i've got no idea

1145
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,319
sorry we can ask for vietnam it's how

1146
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:14,400
many dongs is it uh but anyway it's the

1147
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:17,520
20th of the 21st of uh november

1148
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,560
full

1149
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:20,000
range of international and local

1150
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:21,839
speakers from both australia new zealand

1151
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,800
uh the uk russia russia russia

1152
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,640
excellent speaker from russia who was a

1153
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,560
bit of an expert at debunking uh myth

1154
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:30,480
and he's part of the russian institute

1155
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,560
of uh scientific research and uh

1156
00:43:35,309 --> 00:43:34,319
whatever it's called so get your tickets

1157
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:35,319
now at

1158
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:38,000
skepticon.org dot a u that's the ticket

1159
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:39,680
folks you know you should you know you

1160
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,800
should tim let's uh let's run down the

1161
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:44,480
street and go to the club at the end of

1162
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:46,240
the street because it's open again oh

1163
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:48,400
excellent and we can have um for the

1164
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,640
first time in months a hamburger and

1165
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:52,960
chips or something i think your your

1166
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:58,470
we should do that thank you tim my

1167
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:00,880
pleasure

1168
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,950
hey everyone this is professor dave i

1169
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,640
want to teach you about all kinds of

1170
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,400
things regarding science i want to tell

1171
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:34,319
you about physics i want to tell you

1172
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,000
about chemistry biology astronomy math

1173
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:40,480
and many many more things come check me

1174
00:44:49,310 --> 00:44:42,480
out on youtube the channel is called

1175
00:44:49,320 --> 00:45:03,829
[Music]

1176
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,910
now it's time once again to dive into

1177
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:07,760
the trove the treasure trove of

1178
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:09,760
digitized newspapers periodicals

1179
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:11,920
gazettes magazines

1180
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,720
and so on stored at the national library

1181
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,960
of australia and of course available

1182
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:19,119
online no matter where you are in the

1183
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:20,960
world at trove

1184
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:23,760
dot nla dot gov dot a u

1185
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,240
and i thought we would revisit a classic

1186
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,720
of skepticism a classic

1187
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,319
one of the reasons i got interested in

1188
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,880
the whole skeptical field

1189
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:34,480
ufos

1190
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,560
now i think this is the second time i've

1191
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:38,319
looked into the subject

1192
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,680
although

1193
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:41,599
this time in the search

1194
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:45,040
field i not only put the word ufo i also

1195
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,400
put the word

1196
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,319
alien

1197
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,200
and many returns come to us from the

1198
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,800
canberra times

1199
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:54,880
so we'll start there on the 9th of

1200
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,560
september in 1991.

1201
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:01,280
a ufo expert hopes

1202
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,150
sydney

1203
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:10,480
the british author of 14 books on

1204
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,160
unidentified flying objects hopes aliens

1205
00:46:16,510 --> 00:46:15,680
do not exist

1206
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:16,520
if

1207
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:19,520
extraterrestrials existed people had no

1208
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:21,440
more control over their future than

1209
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:24,800
animals jenny randles said after

1210
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,480
addressing australia's first

1211
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,040
international unidentified flying object

1212
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:31,200
conference at the weekend

1213
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,119
quote there's no doubt that if the

1214
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:35,839
extraterrestrial hypothesis is correct

1215
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,520
then the phenomenon is the ruling force

1216
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:41,520
end quote she said

1217
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:42,560
quote

1218
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:45,599
we are not in control of it it is in

1219
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,800
control of us effectively we are in the

1220
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,200
position of animals in the wild who are

1221
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,680
in the hands of human beings for their

1222
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:55,119
future

1223
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,160
preservation they can't save themselves

1224
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,640
if they get wiped out they get wiped out

1225
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:03,119
because of things we do

1226
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:05,599
maybe not even intentionally

1227
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:08,319
consequently other intelligence could

1228
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,599
effectively do really bad things to the

1229
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,160
human race either consciously or

1230
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:15,680
unconsciously

1231
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:17,839
it is beyond us

1232
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:20,640
it is at the level of indifference from

1233
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,559
us as we are from the animal kingdom and

1234
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:27,280
that is what's frightening

1235
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:28,559
end quote

1236
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:30,800
miss randalls was one of a series of

1237
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,040
international speakers on saturday at

1238
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,520
the first day of the weekend conference

1239
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:37,920
others included a united states research

1240
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,960
leader

1241
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:40,400
jerome clarke

1242
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:44,800
and a former astronaut brian o'leary

1243
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:48,000
miss randalls said she and many other

1244
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:51,359
ufologists were trying desperately to

1245
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,319
prove that alien life did not exist but

1246
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:56,800
the only explanation that worked

1247
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,800
quote even reasonably well and quote was

1248
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:02,319
that they did

1249
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:03,200
quote

1250
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,119
it is a terrifying prospect because we

1251
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:08,319
appear to be virtually pawns in the

1252
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:11,359
hands of it and quote she said

1253
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:14,640
quote the point is when you try to make

1254
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,400
every other possible explanation fit

1255
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,960
you are in some way

1256
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,599
contriving it men quote

1257
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:25,920
most reported incidents had simple

1258
00:48:31,589 --> 00:48:28,400
mundane explanations she said but

1259
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:31,599
perhaps 20 000 cases had survived

1260
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:34,079
intense scrutiny by clinical

1261
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:38,559
psychologists psychiatrists sociologists

1262
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:42,079
physicists and others stories of people

1263
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,640
abducted by aliens indicated that alien

1264
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:47,280
life was toying with humanity

1265
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:50,079
quote what they are attempting to do is

1266
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:51,440
study us

1267
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:54,319
often in both psychological and

1268
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:57,520
physiological fashions performing if you

1269
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:00,000
like sampling operations medical

1270
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,119
examinations things like that and also

1271
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,200
psychological probing

1272
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:07,440
secondly what they're trying to do is to

1273
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:09,680
direct our society by subtle

1274
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,400
intervention in other words by allowing

1275
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:15,119
us to try to make the changes

1276
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:18,480
so people who have been abducted are of

1277
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:21,440
the impression they've been subtly

1278
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,960
implanted with tasks to perform

1279
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,160
unaware

1280
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:28,640
of the purposes themselves

1281
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,960
end quote

1282
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:32,640
1991

1283
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,520
so 30 years ago

1284
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,680
i think these aliens like playing the

1285
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:39,040
long game

1286
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:43,839
comes from the news from adelaide south

1287
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:44,960
australia

1288
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:49,359
on the 25th of august 1954

1289
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:51,520
flying saucer man

1290
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:52,960
friendly

1291
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:55,200
oslo tuesday

1292
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,480
police in north and central norway are

1293
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:00,960
setting off today in search of any trace

1294
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,359
of a flying saucer

1295
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:05,520
from which two young women reported

1296
00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:07,839
seeing a quote

1297
00:50:10,829 --> 00:50:09,590
dork

1298
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:10,839
[Music]

1299
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:14,079
dork dork what

1300
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:16,640
yep that's exactly what it says dork

1301
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:18,640
dork

1302
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:23,040
long head

1303
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,720
foreign looking man end quote emerge

1304
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,480
a door came

1305
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,240
they said they saw the man while they

1306
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:32,960
were picking berries they described him

1307
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:35,920
as appearing friendly and anxious to

1308
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:38,640
talk but wasn't able to understand

1309
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:39,680
english

1310
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,040
french

1311
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:42,720
or german

1312
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:46,559
and norwegian too i suspect

1313
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:47,920
after the man

1314
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:50,160
vainly tried to explain himself with

1315
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,960
words gestures and drawings he climbed

1316
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:54,880
into the saucer

1317
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,680
which rose straight into the air

1318
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,280
and disappeared

1319
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:01,760
they said the saucer was about 16 feet

1320
00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:04,720
in diameter and looked like two sources

1321
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,079
put together

1322
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:09,200
it started with a slight humming sound

1323
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,640
like a bee

1324
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:13,359
then rose at great speed

1325
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:17,839
the man wore a kind of a khaki overall

1326
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:19,520
or khaki

1327
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,480
without buttons but possibly

1328
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:24,000
with the belt

1329
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:25,520
when police questioned the women

1330
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:27,920
separately both told similar stories

1331
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:30,400
with only minor divergences

1332
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:36,390
might have been a slowed news day back

1333
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,359
in august 1954

1334
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:42,000
and now we skip ahead to the 1st of june

1335
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:43,680
1987.

1336
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:46,480
once again from the canberra times

1337
00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:49,520
allegations of alien cover-up london

1338
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:50,480
sunday

1339
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,040
australian associated press

1340
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:56,160
the bodies of four aliens from a ufo

1341
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:58,079
which crashed in the united states 40

1342
00:52:01,670 --> 00:51:59,200
years ago

1343
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:01,680
were removed and examined by a special

1344
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,640
government team according to top secret

1345
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:06,559
documents obtained by a british

1346
00:52:11,349 --> 00:52:09,200
researcher a report in the national

1347
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:11,359
sunday newspaper in britain said a

1348
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,280
committee codenamed majestic 12

1349
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:17,760
was involved in the recovery operation

1350
00:52:20,790 --> 00:52:18,559
and

1351
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:20,800
the subsequent cover-up

1352
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,119
the observer newspaper said it had seen

1353
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:25,280
the documents which claim

1354
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:28,559
the then head of the cia admiral roscoe

1355
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:31,520
hillenkotter reported that quote

1356
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:33,440
although these creatures are human-like

1357
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:36,079
in appearance the biological and

1358
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:39,040
evolutionary processes responsible for

1359
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:41,920
their development have apparently been

1360
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:44,640
quite different from those observed or

1361
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:47,359
postulated in homo sapiens

1362
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:48,480
end quote

1363
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:50,559
the document purports to be a briefing

1364
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:52,800
paper for president eisenhower on

1365
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:56,800
operation majestic 12 or mj-12

1366
00:53:02,950 --> 00:52:59,920
a leading british ufo researcher mr

1367
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:02,960
timothy good claims in his book above

1368
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,319
top secret the worldwide ufo cover-up

1369
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:08,400
that majestic 12 was a committee of

1370
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:11,440
senior u.s officials which investigated

1371
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:14,319
and then covered up flying saucer

1372
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:15,359
crashes

1373
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:18,240
some ufo experts believe the story could

1374
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:21,599
be a hoax involving the planting in the

1375
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:24,160
files of air force intelligence a

1376
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:27,200
separate white house memo which supports

1377
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:28,880
the briefing paper

1378
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:30,960
the observer said inquiries had been

1379
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,000
unable to authenticate the document but

1380
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:36,319
evidence had been found to support the

1381
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,680
existence of the mysterious mj12

1382
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:40,880
committee

1383
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:43,599
in the briefing paper detailing the

1384
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:46,000
discovery of the alien bodies it was

1385
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:49,760
reported that on june 24 1947

1386
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:54,480
disc shape aircraft were cited in the us

1387
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:57,599
little was learned until a local rancher

1388
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:00,640
reported one had crashed in new mexico

1389
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:04,000
end quote the briefing paper said

1390
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:08,559
it continues quote on july 7 1947 a

1391
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:11,680
secret operation began to assure

1392
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,160
recovery of the wreckage for scientific

1393
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,240
study during the course of this

1394
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:18,800
operation aerial reconnaissance

1395
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:21,599
discovered that four small human-like

1396
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,319
beings had apparently ejected from the

1397
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,280
craft before it exploded end quote

1398
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:30,160
extensive searches of the archives of

1399
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:33,280
u.s presidents truman and eisenhower and

1400
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:35,119
the national archives

1401
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:37,440
had failed to turn up a copy of the

1402
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:39,200
briefing paper

1403
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:42,559
it seems no evidence of the alien body's

1404
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:44,960
remains either

1405
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:48,240
and that again was from 1987

1406
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,200
oh

1407
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:51,280
roswell new mexico

1408
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:54,559
you are the ufo gift that just keeps on

1409
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,720
giving over the decades although you

1410
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:58,240
don't hear much

1411
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:00,160
about that anymore

1412
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:06,630
majestic 12

1413
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:09,280
also known as mj12 for short is a

1414
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:11,599
purported organization that appears in

1415
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:14,559
ufo conspiracy theories

1416
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:17,119
the organization is claimed to be the

1417
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,559
code name of an alleged secret committee

1418
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,559
of scientists military leaders and

1419
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,680
government officials formed in 1947

1420
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:28,160
by an executive order by u.s president

1421
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,720
harry s truman to facilitate recovery

1422
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,280
and investigation of alien spacecraft

1423
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,520
the concept originated in a series of

1424
00:55:40,789 --> 00:55:37,839
supposedly leaked secret government

1425
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:40,799
documents first circulated by ufologists

1426
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:44,160
in 1984. upon examination the federal

1427
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,520
bureau of investigation fbi declared the

1428
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,440
documents to be

1429
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:50,640
completely

1430
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:51,839
bogus

1431
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:54,880
and many ufologists consider them to be

1432
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,760
an

1433
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:57,280
elaborate hoax

1434
00:56:02,630 --> 00:55:59,680
majestic 12 remains popular among some

1435
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,640
ufo conspiracy theorists and the concept

1436
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,480
has appeared

1437
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:06,640
in popular culture including television

1438
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,359
film and literature

1439
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:12,240
but there i think we'll leave the ufos

1440
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:13,920
for this week

1441
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:16,640
i wonder what happened in norway

1442
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,990
those

1443
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:24,160
women picking berries

1444
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:25,599
frightened

1445
00:56:36,190 --> 00:56:33,680
ufos and all sorts of things

1446
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:36,200
by visiting trove

1447
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,799
trove.nla.gov dot a u researching

1448
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:40,319
searching

1449
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,960
the archives of australian newspapers

1450
00:56:47,730 --> 00:56:44,400
and you never know

1451
00:57:06,549 --> 00:56:47,740
what you will find

1452
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:08,150
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1453
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:11,680
zone podcast now last week's episode as

1454
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:13,440
you may recall was dedicated to the

1455
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:15,680
memory of michael wallahan one of the

1456
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:17,760
original reporters on the show who sadly

1457
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:20,559
died a couple of weeks ago and a few

1458
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:22,640
days ago i went to uh

1459
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,640
to michael's funeral it was a very

1460
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:26,640
moving funeral

1461
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:28,720
and it was interesting because uh

1462
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,440
michael was a huge science fiction fan

1463
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,680
and even william shatner got a mention

1464
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:35,680
at michael's funeral because

1465
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,280
michael would have got a

1466
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:39,839
got a big kick out of the fact that

1467
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:42,880
william shatner went into space

1468
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:44,160
and on

1469
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,680
the

1470
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:48,000
little order of service

1471
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,720
handed out at michael's funeral

1472
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:52,480
was the following line

1473
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:55,359
may his spirit reside somewhere in space

1474
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:58,160
the final frontier upon the voyage of

1475
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:00,160
the starship enterprise

1476
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:01,920
where it may go

1477
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:06,319
to where no man has boldly gone before

1478
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:07,760
i though that was

1479
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,240
that was just really touching knowing

1480
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:11,760
michael

1481
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,160
another big thank you to those people

1482
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:18,160
who contributed the show via patreon or

1483
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,359
paypal at skepticzone.tv

1484
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:22,799
your

1485
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:25,119
monthly contributions

1486
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:27,119
mean the show keeps going and thank you

1487
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:29,520
to those people who occasionally chip in

1488
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:32,240
because you can chip in you know

1489
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:34,640
and that certainly does help the show as

1490
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,440
well

1491
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:37,599
if it wasn't for people like you people

1492
00:58:41,430 --> 00:58:39,119
who contribute

1493
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:41,440
there would be no skeptic zone

1494
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:43,599
coming up on next week's show more book

1495
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:46,400
of tim and part two

1496
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:48,079
of our interview with dr karl

1497
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:49,599
kruzelniski

1498
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,559
and as we were chatting it occurred to

1499
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,040
me that dr carl and i quite

1500
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:57,359
independently of each other have

1501
00:59:02,630 --> 00:58:59,440
reasonably similar

1502
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:02,640
setups for our our home studios that's

1503
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:05,760
quite interesting but for this week this

1504
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:08,160
is richard saunders signing off from

1505
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:15,750
you've been listening to the skeptic

1506
00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:17,200
zone podcast

1507
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:18,559
please visit our website at

1508
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:24,870
for show notes contacts and to access

1509
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:27,359
the back catalog of episodes going back

1510
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,599
to 2008.

1511
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:31,520
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1512
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:32,400
on twitter

1513
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:34,319
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1514
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:36,480
visit our facebook page or leave a

1515
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,720
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1516
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:40,799
you can also support the skeptic zone

1517
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:44,079
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1518
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:47,359
podcast is an independent production the

1519
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:49,040
views and opinions expressed on the

1520
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:51,280
skeptic zone are not necessarily those